{Stus-List} PHRF Rating allowances & details

Dennis C. captbuy at yahoo.com
Mon Jan 17 20:18:17 EST 2011


Chuck,

Is it an Evelyn 32 made by C&C or the other yard that made them?  Just curious.  
I seem to remember the C&C made E32's weren't quite as good as the others.

Dennis C.




________________________________
"a drysailed Evelyn 32 rating 99 but very, very, fast with the most experienced 
skipper."


Chuck
34R






----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hoyt" <Mike.Hoyt at impgroup.com>
To: cnc-list at cnc-list.com
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 2:34:40 PM
Subject: Re: {Stus-List} Racing details

Most areas have base boat ratings with spinnaker (180%), largest LP
155%, folding/feathering prop etc....

The numbers Chuck posted seem to be adjusted handicaps.  Adjusted for no
spinnaker and I am assimuning some adjustment for the smaller headsail.
Some areas do give adjustments for furler and slightly smaller
headsails.  

The J28 rating seems to be consistent with all the rest in terms of
handicaps in other areas.  I do that the J28 seems to be the smallest
and lightest boat in a fleet of much larger boats.  It is often
difficult to race boats of such different sizes, etc in the same race
...

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: cnc-list-bounces at cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-bounces at cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of michael Poulter
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 3:23 PM
To: cnc-list at cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: {Stus-List} Racing details


Not sure that PHRF gives a hoot about max head sail % as long as it is
less than 155%. So you could get biggere head sail and not have your
rating change. (atleast on Lake Huron this is true). Skirting a sail
isn't a big deal so consider more canvas. 
 
mp  

________________________________
> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:28:43 +0000
> From: cscheaffer at comcast.net
> To: cnc-list at cnc-list.com
> Subject: {Stus-List} Racing details
>
> Hi Dwight,
>
> We race our C&C 34R offshore between Ocean City and Atlantic City, NJ.
> The races have all been light air, 4 to 8 knots so the bigger boats
> suffer more than the smaller ones. Our C&C 34R has a PHRF-MA rating of
> 99 based on the shorter keel, and a 144% jib on a furler. The Ocean
> City Yacht Club runs the races and uses Portsmith Yardstick and
> assigned me a rating of PN 70.8 That rating is probably for a 150%,
> but the bigger sail requires skirting and I wanted to keep things
> simple as I learn to race the boat. If I switch to the larger sail and
> forego the furler, my PHRF rating will drop to 93. I'd love to have
> the bigger sail up for light winds, but it requires more crew work and
> more weight on the rail, and isn't needed above 15 knots, so not sure
> how I'm going to apply for PHRF this year. Can only have one rating
> for the year.
>
> Our no spinnaker fleet included:
> Boat PHRF PN
> C&C 37+ 84 67.0
> C&C 34R 99 70.8
> C&C 34+ 105 73.0
> C&C 99 110 72.6
> C&C 33MkII 144 79.5
> Beneteau 32S5 156 81.0
> J-28 174 83.5
>
>
> I just like to do well. I like to learn things and get better at what
> I'm doing. I put a lot of effort into preparation and expect to do
> well. This year was my first year skippering a race and we had a
> pickup crew (some had never sailed before the race) and we all learned
> as we raced while leading the fleet around the course so we had to
> learn fast how to find the marks, the laylines, and the finish line.
> My crew of high school kids performed exceedingy well and deserved a
> first place trophy, but it eluded us. My crew couldn't understand how
> we could beat the fleet by 3.5 minutes and still get second place, but
> that's PHRF. The purists say we aren't sailing our boat to it's
> rating, so that hurts, especially losing to a 28 footer. (This
> particular J-28 has a slower rating than a J-24 yet he is almost our
> speed and has had same crew for 8 years and three suits of racing
> sails.) I'm looking to make whatever improvements I can, though I'm
> not removing any cleats or doing anything illegal. But this time of
> year is when I obsess with details so I can focus more on sailing in
> the summer.
>
> I just calculated that in order for my 70.8 rated C&C 34R to win a 60
> minute time-on-time race against the J-28, rated at 83.5, I need to
> finish 12.7 minutes ahead. We sometimes beat him by 4 minutes, and I
> probably could save a couple minutes in my steering, or playing
shifts,
> but I am convinced his rating is just wrong. I'm not complaining. If
> you saw how that boat went around the course, you'd say the same
> thing. Others tell me the boat is stripped below, but I've never seen
> it. Maybe I figured the thing wrong?
>
> Chuck
> Resolute, C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dwight veinot"
> To: cnc-list at cnc-list.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 4:12:59 PM
> Subject: Re: {Stus-List} Remove Stern Cleats for Racing?
>
>
> Of course you are correct, Chuck, and your references are good
too...but
> for club racing...really not that important...it's all about having
fun
> with your crew and even though winning is the best fun I know
but...you
> attend to things that will help you win and I think that's what you
> must do because you are competitive like I am a bit and from what I
> have read from you lately I see that you are practicing as a crew...so
> you guys will do fine...you have good sails, a good crew and a clean
> bottom...what about your area handicap...what is it where you race?
>
>
>
> Dwight Veinot
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: cnc-list-bounces at cnc-list.com
> [mailto:cnc-list-bounces at cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
> cscheaffer at comcast.net
> Sent: January 16, 2011 4:41 PM
> To: cnc-list at cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: {Stus-List} Remove Stern Cleats for Racing?
>
>
>
> Optomizing a boat for racing involves an extensive program of removing
> any unnessessary hardware including cleats, cutting the genoa tracks
> down, removing all cruising gear including cushions and filler boards,
> the saloon table and locker doors if possible. Pumping the water tanks
> out, carrying only enough fuel to out and back. The three pounds isn't
> the objective. It's just part of a weight reduction program that goes
> back to Rod Stephens in the 30's and Dennis Conner wrote "No Excuse To
> Lose" in the 80's.
>
> You still need a good crew, good tactics, good sails, and a clean
> bottom. But as one who just started racing, I am learning what is
> legal and what is being done in our PHRF fleet. Our fleet is small
> and diverse. Our boat won 5 out 8 finishes by over 3.5 minutes but a
> certain J-28 corrected ahead of us and we were given 2nd place. All
> light wind races where weight is important. The PHRF rating is based
> on the boat being lean and if it's setup for cruising, it will
probably
> be an inch or more lower in the water (1000# to 1500# heavier) than
the
> same boat racing.
>
> I wouldn't remove the cleats, but I can understand when it would be
> necessary if you're in a fleet that is serious, and you have done
> everything else?
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "OldSteveH"
> To: cnc-list at cnc-list.com
> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 1:28:47 PM
> Subject: {Stus-List} Remove Stern Cleats for Racing?
>
> Ok folks now I've heard of everything.
>
> Can someone explain how this would present a real racing advantage?
> 2 cleats at 3 lbs each (big ones) represents a 0.05% weight reduction
on a
> 12,000 lb boat.
> An infitismally small difference, which if somehow important could be
made
> up in other ways.
> I can think of a number of potential uses for stern cleats, mostly
safety
> related.
>
> Sounds like obsession with tiny details while possibly missing bigger
issues
> - like sailing skills.
>
> Put a top notch boat in the hands of an average racing crew and you
will
> achieve average results (or worse).
> Put an average boat in the hands of a top notch racing crew and you
will
> have top notch results.
>
> Steve Hood
> C&C34 - Whisper
> Lions Head ON
>
>
>
>
>
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