Stus-List [C&C 38 Mk 3] Cracks on the keel

Olivier Chatot ochatot at gmail.com
Thu May 9 23:01:23 EDT 2019


Hi Josh,

Thank you. I appreciate your input.

I've had a similar experience with surveyors. In France, they explicitly
say they don't disassemble anything.

In addition, they always write a clause in the survey that exonerates them
from harm caused by a hidden defect ("vice caché" in French). This makes
some sense, since it should be the insurance company taking responsibility
of that.

For keel bolts, what they usually do here is record the state of the bolts
with photos, comment on their appearance, and perhaps recommend a
replacement.

Thank you,
Olivier

On Thu, May 9, 2019, 22:48 Josh Muckley via CnC-List <cnc-list at cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> All of the surveyors I've had all say they don't do keel bolts, engine, or
> standing rigging.  TBH its pretty disappointing.
>
> Torque keel bolts
> https://youtu.be/n6B0IPKQERc
>
> G-Flex keel repair
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8pEh5lnvP1yV1JEN3YxQk1RbHc/view?usp=drivesdk
>
> I second all of the previous advice regarding the "smile".
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C&C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2019, 10:27 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List <
> cnc-list at cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Buying a boat without using a professionally certified surveyor is a
>> classic mistake.  We require buyers who insist on proceeding without a
>> survey a document showing that we strongly advise against it and they hold
>> us harmless.
>>
>> Neil Andersen
>> 1982 C&C 32, FoxFire
>> Yacht Broker
>>
>> Neil Andersen
>> 20691 Jamieson Rd
>> Rock Hall, MD 21661
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* CnC-List <cnc-list-bounces at cnc-list.com> on behalf of Olivier
>> Chatot via CnC-List <cnc-list at cnc-list.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 9, 2019 8:35 PM
>> *To:* cnc-list at cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* Olivier Chatot
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List [C&C 38 Mk 3] Cracks on the keel
>>
>> Thank you, Dennis, for the thorough explanation.
>>
>> I had come across the "C&C smile" in the list. My first instinct was that
>> it's related. When I see the close-up photos of your 35-1, I can recognize
>> it's the same kind of crack (same general width and depth).
>>
>> However, the cracks have different shapes. The cracks of your 35-1 are
>> only present at the front of the keel, and they are at an angle, actually
>> resembling a smile. The cracks on the 38-3 I visited are perfectly
>> horizontal and extend all along the keel. Does your 35-1 have a deep bilge,
>> like the 38-3 I visited? If it doesn't, that would explain the difference.
>>
>> As for the washers, they are present under the bolt nuts. Visually, they
>> do not seem degraded to me. But I'm not confident that a problem is always
>> visually detectable. One of the items in the album I linked originally is a
>> video. The camera gets quite close to the bolts. Here's the link again:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6RCU4JpoorAXvxe99
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Olivier
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 9, 2019, 20:02 Dennis C. via CnC-List <cnc-list at cnc-list.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Probably a simple case of the "C&C smile".  This has been discussed ad
>>> nauseum on this list.  Many of us on this list have experienced it and
>>> repaired it.
>>>
>>> In its most frequent occurrence, properly torquing the keel bolts and
>>> epoxying a couple layers of glass tape over it will fix it.  Here's some
>>> pics of the smile on my 35-1:
>>>
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/smile/index.htm
>>>
>>> That smile was fixed by torquing the keel bolts, digging out some
>>> crumbly stuff at the hull/keel interface, filling the dug out areas with
>>> epoxy glass, layering 4 inch biaxial tape over the hull/keel joint, fairing
>>> and painting.  20 years and 14,000 nautical miles of sailing in all
>>> conditions later, it has not recurred.
>>>
>>> Many of us on the list have similar experience with the smile.
>>>
>>> Very infrequently, more action is required.  This involves dropping the
>>> keel and resealing the joint.  There may be a void or two or a structural
>>> weakness around one or more of the keel bolts.  Again, this has only been
>>> observed infrequently.  There are folks on this list that have experience
>>> with that.
>>>
>>> Again, the most common occurrence is fixed by properly torquing the
>>> bolts.  Here's a link to the torque specs posted on the C&C site:
>>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/torquebolts/torquebolts.htm
>>>
>>> It was hard to tell in your pics, what is under the keel bolt nuts?
>>> Another critical piece of fixing the smile is stainless washers or plates
>>> under the nuts.  Many  early C&C's had steel plates which degraded allowing
>>> the keel bolts to become loose.
>>>
>>> Dennis C.
>>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>>> Mandeville, LA
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 6:25 PM Olivier Chatot via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list at cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm considering buying a C&C 38 Mk3, but I've noticed something on the
>>>> keel that worries me.
>>>>
>>>> There is a horizontal crack on both sides of the keel. The cracks
>>>> stretch almost the full length of the keel. It's present at the same depth
>>>> on both sides, but it's more noticeable starboard. (see drawing)
>>>>
>>>> The cracks are at the same depth as the keel bolts in the bilge (see
>>>> photo). The keel bolts seem to be all in good condition.
>>>>
>>>> The crack is approx 43 cm (17 inch) lower than the base of the belly of
>>>> the hull, measured from the outside.
>>>>
>>>> Drawing, and photo&video of the bilge here:
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/6RCU4JpoorAXvxe99
>>>>
>>>> By the way, this C&C 38 has the wing keel option.
>>>>
>>>> Have you seen something like this before?
>>>> Do you think this is superficial, or structural?
>>>> In your opinion, is it a deal-breaker for the purchase?
>>>>
>>>> Any opinion, comment and advise is greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Olivier
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
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>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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